[POKKEN] General Advice/AMA with Ouroboro

[Ouroboro 0/300]

Hey there Pokken pals or non-Pokken pals!

I'm a offline tournament player since the first day of Wii U Pokken and I wish to use my experience to answer as much as possible about Pokken! Also, I'm new here.

Even if you don't play, you can still ask me stuff! But uh, Pokken related preferred? I know a lot about the scene and stuff.

Helping people is great! Got a problem in the game? Ask! I'll help.

[Nitro 2,318/3200]

20 minutes ago, Ouroboro said:

I'm a offline tournament player since the first day of Wii U Pokken

Underselling yourself by a mile, dude.

This guy is currently ranked in the Top 10 in the world. He should be able to answer just about any question you have about Pokken.

[Sol 0/300]

What's a common trap people get caught in when they're trying to get better, and how do you get around it? How should people practice effectively?

Spoiler

How do you beat Gardevoir?

[13thShade 4,323/5000]

36 minutes ago, Ouroboro said:

Hey there Pokken pals or non-Pokken pals!

I'm a offline tournament player since the first day of Wii U Pokken and I wish to use my experience to answer as much as possible about Pokken! Also, I'm new here.

Even if you don't play, you can still ask me stuff! But uh, Pokken related preferred? I know a lot about the scene and stuff.

Helping people is great! Got a problem in the game? Ask! I'll help.

So let's say we don't play Pokken, but want to spectate and know a bit more about it. Where is a good place to learn the basics so that I can enjoy spectating more?

[Ouroboro 0/300]

1 minute ago, Sol said:

What's a common trap people get caught in when they're trying to get better, and how do you get around it? How should people practice effectively?

Hide contents

How do you beat Gardevoir?

Pride in my opinion. It's a fighting game, where people obviously want to be the best and take any confidence they can get. This is extremely common in the low to mid level play where you THINK you know the game, but you don't, and your results and losses reflect that (which they will most likely disregard). Most people get angry at the game at this state, and stop thinking objectively. Sometimes, the sheer lack of it kills people and they develop the, "I can't do it" mentality, which is honestly just as bad. Fighting games with psychology is actually really interesting.

I can't stress it enough to clear your mind (not in an ultra spiritual sense of course) and just think objectively and with perspective. Fighting games have so many variables (In my opinion, and infinite number) that it's simply impossible to think of them linearly and expect to be a consistent player.

Effective practice in my opinion is best by analysis. Rewatching your losing tournament sets, seeing what you could do differently in a situation, watching people play your character OR just any top level player in general all help. Combos, optimal damage, etc is fine, but I personally believe you can win without any of those things by just being that much smarter than your opponent. You don't know the 300 damage confirm, but you still knew to punish that attack whiffing etc or you got into your opponent's head etc.

When pokken first came out, I studied the Japanese Pokken scene, who are one year ahead of us. I copied a lot of their stuff and applied it to my own gameplay. I then attempted to evolve the entire Gardevoir meta (Gardevoir went from a zoner to a pressure character.)

Vs Gardevoir.

Gardevoir's weakness is her generally linear buttons that allow for easy reactions. In both field and duel, she needs to first outplay you to do her thing. A lot of buttons are reactable, and it's very easy to control her gameplay once you know what it is. This match-up is easy, but hard, because you do need to train yourself to understand her move properties and react accordingly. She is most scary if she has a future sight up, so don't let her get that. Supports like Emolga punish her for even trying to set it up, assuming you react to them using it. Her close range isn't bad, but her stubby hitboxes and long start up on projectiles make it hard for her to play defense.

Mid range is her biggest weakness. Too far to melee, too close to projectile. Most Garde's will panic and counter or just try to walk back or go for psyshock (which isn't super slow, but still reactable). Poking at her from that range makes her job impossible. Counter safe options also help, as she relies on counter as her only defense. Just make sure they're safe on block.

23 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Underselling yourself by a mile, dude.

This guy is currently ranked in the Top 10 in the world. He should be able to answer just about any question you have about Pokken.

I'm flattered haha.

6 minutes ago, 13thShade said:

So let's say we don't play Pokken, but want to spectate and know a bit more about it. Where is a good place to learn the basics so that I can enjoy spectating more?

Definitely follow PokkenArena and BurnsideBH on twitter. They advertise Pokken content AS WELL AS Major Tournaments. Also. www.pokkenarena.com has a lot of content and a weekend watch list for top quality content from Japan and US.

The Pokken Arena calendar has the event dates. You could also just ask me if there's a major tournament happening soon.

[13thShade 4,323/5000]

4 minutes ago, Ouroboro said:

Definitely follow PokkenArena and BurnsideBH on twitter. They advertise Pokken content AS WELL AS Major Tournaments. Also. www.pokkenarena.com has a lot of content and a weekend watch list for top quality content from Japan and US.

The Pokken Arena calendar has the event dates. You could also just ask me if there's a major tournament happening soon.

Will do :)

Do you happen to know how many VGC/TCG events overlap with Pokken? I know there was Pokken at Worlds last year, but I'm curious if Regionals, Internats, and PCs/MSSs have Pokken versions as well.

[Ouroboro 0/300]

3 minutes ago, 13thShade said:

Will do :)

Do you happen to know how many VGC/TCG events overlap with Pokken? I know there was Pokken at Worlds last year, but I'm curious if Regionals, Internats, and PCs/MSSs have Pokken versions as well.

It's not super uncommon, but generally Pokken overlaps with other Fighting Games, even TPCi events. However, Pokken Worlds and big ones do overlap with TCG/VGC. The process for how Pokken brackets work makes it EXTREMELY recommended someone with Fighting Game Community experience take care of, so you'll see Pokken mostly at FGC events.

[13thShade 4,323/5000]

1 minute ago, Ouroboro said:

It's not super uncommon, but generally Pokken overlaps with other Fighting Games, even TPCi events. However, Pokken Worlds and big ones do overlap with TCG/VGC. The process for how Pokken brackets work makes it EXTREMELY recommended someone with Fighting Game Community experience take care of, so you'll see Pokken mostly at FGC events.

How does Worlds qualification work? I'm very familiar with qualification for say, League of Legends, or Pokemon VGC, but I have no idea how the fighting game circuit works.

I know I could probably google it but it's interesting to hear it from someone who knows it first hand ;p

[Ouroboro 0/300]

1 minute ago, 13thShade said:

How does Worlds qualification work? I'm very familiar with qualification for say, League of Legends, or Pokemon VGC, but I have no idea how the fighting game circuit works.

I know I could probably google it but it's interesting to hear it from someone who knows it first hand ;p

Before, is used to be by points OR by getting top 3/4 at an event. Nowadays, you must get Top 4 at the designated Major designated by TPCi. There is a LCQ DIRECTLY at worlds that accepts 4 more people as well. Then, another 4 in Europe and Oceania.

I've only been qualified for Worlds once myself.

[Guest Zynthix]

I was wondering if you might be able to recommend some Weavile/Croagunk players to watch VoDs on? I recently started playing the game and those two seem to really stand out to me

[Ouroboro 0/300]

Just now, Zynthix said:

I was wondering if you might be able to recommend some Weavile/Croagunk players to watch VoDs on? I recently started playing the game and those two seem to really stand out to me

Weavile:

PG CoachSteve (Many)

Gibus (CEO 2017)

Mizumushi (Kanto Tournament, big recommend)

Potetin (Pokemon Worlds 2016)

Croagunk:

Mewtater (Genesis 5/Dreamhack Denver?)

DoubleFGCs youtube channel (he has recordings of Croagunk)

You won't find much Gunk yet admittedly, he's not very fleshed out. pokken arena has a lot of info on him tho

[Guest Zynthix]

Just now, Ouroboro said:

Weavile:

PG CoachSteve (Many)

Gibus (CEO 2017)

Mizumushi (Kanto Tournament, big recommend)

Potetin (Pokemon Worlds 2016)

Croagunk:

Mewtater (Genesis 5/Dreamhack Denver?)

DoubleFGCs youtube channel (he has recordings of Croagunk)

You won't find much Gunk yet admittedly, he's not very fleshed out. pokken arena has a lot of info on him tho

Hey, that's good enough for me. Gotta start somewhere, right? Much appreciated~

[Ouroboro 0/300]

4 hours ago, Zynthix said:

Hey, that's good enough for me. Gotta start somewhere, right? Much appreciated~

No problem! If you need links to any of them, let me know.

[emboar11 0/300]

First of all, it's a pleasure to have you as a part of DI, and it's awesome that you're doing this AMA!

I have a bit more of a general question for you. I bought Pokken when it was first released on the Wii U, and I really enjoyed playing it for about two weeks or so. I played Machamp for about a week, then switched over to Chandelure for a bit. However, I just got bored with it after that. I never felt compelled to finish the story or to play against people online. And unfortunately since then, I never played the game again. I guess my question would be, what has motivated you to play Pokken so much to the point where you've been ranked where you are now? Any motivating words you might have for someone like me to pick the game back up again?

[Ouroboro 0/300]

1 hour ago, emboar11 said:

First of all, it's a pleasure to have you as a part of DI, and it's awesome that you're doing this AMA!

I have a bit more of a general question for you. I bought Pokken when it was first released on the Wii U, and I really enjoyed playing it for about two weeks or so. I played Machamp for about a week, then switched over to Chandelure for a bit. However, I just got bored with it after that. I never felt compelled to finish the story or to play against people online. And unfortunately since then, I never played the game again. I guess my question would be, what has motivated you to play Pokken so much to the point where you've been ranked where you are now? Any motivating words you might have for someone like me to pick the game back up again?

I'm not much for motivation, but I think that thinking of Fighting Games as a sandbox with infinite possibilities is what drives me to keep playing. There are just so many variables, situations, and strategy to apply to every match and daily I think of new ways to heighten my game play. It's the feeling of improvement I guess? I can't really get bored with this game, and the journey for results makes me feel like there's so much stuff to learn from it.

I'll say fighting games aren't for everyone and that it's very easily to be frustrated and unmotivated to play however. It's very easy to get kicked down, but the feeling of coming up on top I can't even describe.

[emboar11 0/300]

1 hour ago, Ouroboro said:

I'm not much for motivation, but I think that thinking of Fighting Games as a sandbox with infinite possibilities is what drives me to keep playing. There are just so many variables, situations, and strategy to apply to every match and daily I think of new ways to heighten my game play. It's the feeling of improvement I guess? I can't really get bored with this game, and the journey for results makes me feel like there's so much stuff to learn from it.

I'll say fighting games aren't for everyone and that it's very easily to be frustrated and unmotivated to play however. It's very easy to get kicked down, but the feeling of coming up on top I can't even describe.

Thank you for your answer! That's a really interesting way of thinking about it actually, and I never would have thought of it that way. I've had the same problem lately with Smash Bros, my roommates all play it religiously and I lasted much longer with it, but I'm finally starting to get bored, so I'll definitely try to pay more attention to that way of thinking next time I have the chance to play.

[Ouroboro 0/300]

Just now, emboar11 said:

Thank you for your answer! That's a really interesting way of thinking about it actually, and I never would have thought of it that way. I've had the same problem lately with Smash Bros, my roommates all play it religiously and I lasted much longer with it, but I'm finally starting to get bored, so I'll definitely try to pay more attention to that way of thinking next time I have the chance to play.

I'm super glad to hear that! This applies to every fighting game ever tbh. A common misconception is that they're "combo fests" or button mashy, when in reality, they're really just faster paced chess.

[Guest Romancedawn]

Hey what are Gengar's and Empoleon's quickest moves to punish opponents in both field and dual phases? Sometimes I get completely over whelmed by an opponent wait for an animation to finish and just when I think I got them their frames are much quicker than mine.

[Ouroboro 0/300]

1 hour ago, Romancedawn said:

Hey what are Gengar's and Empoleon's quickest moves to punish opponents in both field and dual phases? Sometimes I get completely over whelmed by an opponent wait for an animation to finish and just when I think I got them their frames are much quicker than mine.

For Gengar, it's Grab or 2y. Preferably grab, as Gengar's grab drains synergy, which is pretty big. Gengar's 2x is also quite fast.

Empoleon's fastest move is 2y or Aqua Jet. 2y has bad range, so Aqua Jet is good for punishing people who miss a bit farther out.